FIRST ARRIVING NETWORK
First Arriving Network
Powered by the First Arriving Network, Reaching 1M+ First Responders Worldwide

Helmet-cam video: Commercial laundry fire in Highland Park, Michigan.

Click here to follow STATter911.com on Facebook (hit “like”)

This is a fire on Tuesday in Highland Park, Michigan. Excerpt from the description with the video by HPZ1442 at YouTube:

We arrived with heavy fire conditions in the first floor. Shorty after arrival the second floor began to collapse causing us to make a full defensive attack on this fire.

From DetroitNews.com:

City crews were at the Action Mat laundry service for hours battling the blaze, which began about 5:15 p.m., after employees left for the day. 

No injuries were reported.

Do you want to sell a rig? Click HERE to find out how with SellFireTrucks.com.

Comments - Add Yours

  • Bob Sacamento

    This should be fun!!!!

  • A. Gates

    Surround and drown. Not much more to do.

  • Brickcity1306

    Ohhh yeaaaaa !! Bag of popcorn check, ice cold beverage check let the fun start LoL

  • Mack Seagrave

    Commercial structure fire and the first line stretched is the same one that’s designed for automobile, rubbish and brush fires … 1.75″ with a fog nozzle. This mistake is repeated frequently in many parts of the U.S..

    • http://www.detroitfirehouse.com Daniel Miller

      Actually, the HPFD operates with about 3 guys on the interior (not counting their driver and IC).

      There’s a reason the 1.5″ was stretched instead of the 2.5″.

      • loud thinker

        …. and what reason is that Mr. Miller?

        Are you saying 3 people can’t deploy and operate a 2-1/2″ line?

        • HPZ

          Hey brother, judging by your post…you obviously know everything. But we work with inch and a half. House fire, car fire, trash fire…whatever. A 1.5 or two is always pulled. There are many reasons why. But I dont feel the need to have to explain them to you.

          • HPZ

            Oh and one more thing….we stretch those lines OFTEN(few times a week…sometimes several times a shift)….and it seems to work out pretty damn good.

  • Keep On Truckin’

    Again with the elevated stream; Why so high? Put the nozzle right at window level and blast a stacked-tip on that bitch! FYI- 2″ tip @ 80psi = 1000gpm

    • HPZ

      Brother, the bucket literally caught on fire on this one….I think it was close enough lol.

  • Crowbar

    Looks like the Engine opened the draft on the stove.

  • B

    Thank you for not going in there. Looks like you guys did what you could to go offensive, but the way this unoccupied comm was sucking air; another ff death trap for sure. Good job, stay safe.

  • Anonymous

    That was piss poor.
    First engine PASSES THE FIRE to go to the rear, with no water supply. They pull the little line all the way to the back of a building that everybody knows is going to burn down. The video even says they can hear the 2nd floor coming down and defensive operations are under way out front. They break some stuff (windows, doors)using the wrong tools and no gloves. Then, with all that gear off the wagon, they decide to move it to the front so they can get a better view of some more stuff going wrong.
    Here’s a hint for all you aspiring videographers. If your department is Bozo, don’t post videos.

    • HPZ

      Our fire scenes are not perfect. We dont have perfect man power, or perfect equipment. We are over worked. Put from what I can see here. It is a successful operation. No one got hurt.
      Explain to me how stretching a 2.5 line would have changed anything? Explain to me why using the tools we used to pry the door was wrong?? Did it not work?? Explain to me why the Sgt needed his gloves on while outside no where near fire. Explain to me how you became the know it all firefighter that you are…..Explain to me what was going wrong in the front that we had control of, or that you could do better. Explain sir. Or better yet, come down and spend an evening with us. You will probably learn a thing or two about working more with less. You are a piss poor “brother” for coming on here and bashing my FD based on a small part of a large operation. It is incredibly disrespectful.

      • Tommy G

        I have to say, Loved the prying the door with the ax. These Armchair FF’s really make me laugh. Like they jump off the rig EVERY time with EXACTLY the correct tools. You make due with what you have, THAT’s WHAT A GREAT FF DOES. “Piss Poor” excuses of FF’s sit on Youtube & Statter (no disrespect Dave) & critique fires that they will NEVER see. I will be showing my guys this video as there are some GREAT nuggets here. Great job Brother! As you said, nothing is perfect, especially in with a Sh!t job like this but you guys did the best you could with the resources allocated to the box. Also did a great job at getting additional resources from out of town & deploying them effectivily. Glad you’re all home safe! BTW, I would like to critique the second call. Should have gone to master stream ops with that one… LOL!

        • HPZ

          HAHA!! I knew we did something wrong on that one. Thanks for the support brother.

  • Mack Seagrave

    It never ceases to amaze me that there are still members of the fire service who disregard basic bread and butter fire service practices and when that fact is brought to light they attempt to justify doing so. Large area structures require large flow. 1.5″ & 1.75″ attack lines do not fall into that catagory. A three person crew should easily be capable of deploying a 2.5″ line and flowing 250 – 300 GPM onto a fire such as the one in the video.

    • HPZ

      Hey boss man, we stretch a 1.5 on EVERY fire. Even our large house fires. we cant commit out ONLY 3 firemen to a 2.5 line. especially when we know we are not going in. Can you not read???1 This was a defensive operation from the start. We made a good decision of not going in. But had we gone in i am sure you people would be on here telling us how we did that all wrong to.

      • Mack Seagrave

        Wow! How can any certified firefighter proudly state, “Hey boss man, we stretch a 1.5 on EVERY fire.” Are your fires different than the ones all the rest of us respond to???

        • HPZ

          Today I called my good friend who has about 18 years on the Detroit Fire Dept. i asked him about the 1.5 vs 2.5. I asked him if they use 2.5 as an attack line often. His answer was no, though it wouldnt be a bad idea, we just dont have the luxury. We use 1.5 on our fires. Yes, sometimes a 2.5 will be pulled. But a 1.5 gets pulled on every fire. There is no reason to be proud or not proud of what kind of hose you pull. But I am proud to say I work in an FD were the guys have to improvise and made due with what we have on a daily basis. And we do a DAMN good job of it. Our fires are probably not different then yours, but the way we work is probably much different. Thank you for your concerns and pointers though. i hope you put as much passion into fighting fires as you do criticizing situations that you cannot see the whole picture, instead of just viewing the video and moving on. If you dont like how we work, I am ok with that.
          Sincerely,
          A VERY PROUD HP Pipeman.
          stay low brother

  • CHAOS

    Looks like with how far away the 1st engine parked, they wouldn’t have gotten very far inside with that 1.5″ anyway judging by the hose stretched across the (very accessible) parking lot.
    Hitting the pick head of the axe with the side of the flat head … hmmm…that’s a different way to do it. Nice gloves by the way on the pick head guy.
    The bucket may have caught fire because it was close enough to the heat …above… Get down out of the thermal and let it eat. By the way, if you’re having trouble with the nozzle, wouldn’t putting that water on the fire do more good than washing the sidewalk while you troubleshoot?
    And, of course, the best thing about pulling that 1.5″ on a losing, quickly heading toward defensive op is that you get to have that awesome 1.5″ for your exterior attack.
    Sounds like a great, rigid, non-flexible SOP there, too: “A 1.5″ or two is always pulled.” I just don’t know if I’d brag about how it “seems to work out pretty damn good” right now.

    • HPZ

      I know you are much smarter then me, and your FD is the best one out there. But here is the deal. First, what is your problem with how we opened that door?? It worked right? Its not the first time we have had to open a door. And that is a Maul not a flat head axe. In fact That EXACT same door has been opened that EXACT same way on a previous fire we had in this building. Which by the way was extinguished without a problem and the business was back in full operation a few days later.
      I am not going to get into why we stretched what we stretched or what we stretch on our fires. Bottom line is we stretch all the time and we do a damn good job.
      Again there are reasons that we made the decisions that we did on this fire and all our fires. You can only see what I could see in this video. You see nothing else. There is alot more going on.
      The problem with the nozzle…it wasnt moving!!!! You think we just decided we will spray the street down??? Obviously if we could get it turned towards the fire we would have. It froze up. That ladder has a TON of hours and is pretty beat up. Sometimes things malfunction. We dont have shinny new stuff. sorry.
      stay safe.

  • Anonymous

    Come on guys, give them a break…. While they were unimpressive to say the least on the first fire, they were certainly able to handle the second one…

    • HPZ

      LOL Unimpressive??? Lets see your videos brother. You people are unreal. It is obvious you lack actual firefighting experience.

      • Tommy G

        Don’t let it bother you Brother. Douche’s who rarely, if ever see fire, let alone the type of fire you see in the D & it’s surrounding communities. I’ve been to a LOT of jobs over the years & a LOT of commercial jobs. It’s how you adapt to the situation that dictates what kind of FD you have. This one was lost when you guys pulled up.

        • HPZ

          Thanks for the support brother. Good to know there are still good firemen out there.

  • Bob Sacamento

    Hee Hee I knew it would be fun!!

    • HPZ

      Always is! lol No matter what gets posted people will pick it apart. We realize this wasnt a perfect fire scene. We also talk about things we could have done different, as we do after all fires….and as everyone should do. But some of the shit these guys bitch about is just petty. No matter what, everyone went home safe.

  • 95%er

    HPZ, sorry your community situation is so bad.
    People are trying to say to you is that some of the things you are doing are not being done in recognition of past lessons learned from the deaths of many brave brother firefighters over the years.
    To say, “this is the way we have been doing it for years” is a sad commentary on the lessons learned from the loss of many good people.

    We get that fact that you get a LOT of fires. Probably more than the average metro firefighter in almost any other area. However, because you have been doing it that way for years…doesn’t translate to you have been doing it correctly for years.

    If you read up on many IAFF Health and Safety initiatives, you would see that many of the very things you are proud of (1.5″ lines on commercial structures) are firefighter killers. You have dodged the bullet. I don’t recall any HPFD fireground fatalities. That doesn’t mean you are exempt from the lessons we have learned.

    There are no perfect scenes and there are no perfect IC’s or conditions. The best we can do is read up on the available information on “best practices” and do it.

    Complacency kills. Many of us cringe and pray for firefighters that tell us…”we have always done it this way”. That feeling kills firefighters.

    Be safe. I didn’t see anyone attack a brother here. I saw a lot of people concerned for the safety of our brothers. The brothers in your overworked and understaffed department.

    • HPZ

      When someone calls my FD “bozo” I take that as an attack. I understand that videos are going to be critiqued by all the critics out there, but there is no reason to bash us. Especially when we get the job done as much as we do. I dont mind someone pointing out something that could have been done different, or should have been done. But its the way these guys go about it with the arrogance that we dont know what we are doing or that our operation is a circus. from now on I guess i will just have to ignore the ridiculous comments, like you used the wrong tools to pry a door……????

    • Mack Seagrave

      Well said 95%.

  • chief 200

    I am have worked short staffed most of my 33 years. Tactics refined over the years improve capabilities. Regardless of how often you pull the line or what your staffing is basic, simple, time-proven tactics practiced every day prove gpm vs btu is the most basic of all concepts. With a 3 person crew it is simple to dismount with a set of “married” irons in one hand and a hook in the other while the nozzle man stretches the PROPER capacity line for the job.All you are repeating is poor justification for doing the same thing every fire. our “worlds” may be different and you may have exceptional firefighters but there is NO justification for pulling an undersized line just because its what you always do.

  • loud thinker

    @ HPZ

    BROTHER, you really need to calm down.

    Whether you’re FDNY, Kentland or some B.F.E. Fire Department in the midwest: any video or photographs you post on the internet are subject to criticism. Good and Bad.

    I never claimed to know everything. I never even stated an opinion. All I did was ask a question.

    When you or someone else posts videos or pictures of your department doing work you’d better be prepared for criticism. Good, bad or otherwise: you’re going to get it. If you can’t handle it, don’t post videos and don’t read the comments.

    I’ll give credit where credit is due. You did what you had to do, to force a door, egress is never a bad thing. To me, just an observer, everything else looked like wasted effort. Why did you vent that structure? Ladder pipes and master streams was all that this fire required. If your SOPs dictate that you pull an 1-1/2″ line for everything, so be it. Don’t get pissy when people start ‘bashing’ your choice of handline, just say “it’s our SOP.”

    Chaos pretty much summed everything up that I was going to say.

    You need to lose the overinflated ego, BROTHER.

    Sorry you’re such a fireman.

    • HPZ

      This is my problem. You cant criticize a fire scene when you were not there, and cannot see everything that is going on. hings like the engine passing the fire and not having a water supply…wrong. there was a hydrant 200ft from that engine.
      The fact that someone cant put up a video without guys saying things like “bozo dept”. Its for the enjoyment of our profession to be able to watch the videos. i could sit online watching them all day long. But not to look for problems, as I dont truly know what all went on there.
      In no way shape or form do I think or did I say that we are perfect or that we do it all right. BELIEVE me, I know our FD makes mistakes…or cuts corners due to lack of manpower and equipment. and we go back and talk about it. But when people start attacking my FD i take it personal.

  • CHAOS

    OK…I didn’t go the “bozo” angle. And, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re one of the five remaining firemen in America who has never questioned or commented about a video scene they saw on the internet.
    As for the engine placement, it’s good to have hydrants readily available, but if you’re passing up an accessible parking lot (that the PD was already in) and end up pulling a 200′ preconnect from 180′ away…well, good luck.
    On the door action, I noticed how easy the hinge pins came out; we’re not always that fortunate. I guess I’m just used to going with a set of halligan & flat head axe. Honestly, in 30+ years, I’ve never had the adventure of holding a pickhead axe while someone else wailed away trying to solidly hit the tip of the pick. Good thing, I make a tempting target.
    Sorry about your nozzle issue. I was more curious about at least rotating the turntable; in my time using a ladderpipe on a str8 stick, we rotated more than spun the nozzle around. Different strokes.
    As far as the 1.5″ (wow! 1.5″ in 2012…not many of them around anymore), I just can’t buy into the “we pull an 1.5″ every time and it works out pretty damn well” mantra, especially on commercial/industrial buildings.
    Yeah, push that red button in on your throttle; you’re over-revving. Look at how bad Gary IN (who probably sees even more fire than you) got fileted a while back. As others have mentioned, just because “that is how we always do it” doesn’t make it the best option. Too many guys have died from poor, outdated methods and equipment to excuse any “stuck in the 70s or 80s” mentality. Charleston SC always bragged about their ISO Class 1 rating. How’d that help on fire day?
    We’ll agree to disagree … but, I would enjoy getting that notarized sworn statement that you’ve never made any comments about anything you’ve seen. There aren’t many of you around anymore.

    • HPZ

      Alright, this is the last response you are going to get out of me. 1st I will explain the placement again. The parking lot was ONLY accessible from the rear. It was about 100 at the most. We had plenty of line left over. The guys on duty that day have fought fire in this same building about a year ago. Same way, same placement, same preconnect. except the fire was not as well advanced on arrival.
      The same door was taken off the same way. With the same tools. I wasnt “wailing” away at the pick. I was giving it a few good taps to wedge it in. So I guess it was a little less dramatic then the way you viewed it.
      Like I said before, that ladder truck has alot of problems. I do not know exactly what happened in this situation, but I assure you that if our guy could get the stream on the fire, he would have done so….seems pretty obvious and insulting that people feel the need to suggest it.
      Today I called a good friend of mine who has about 18 years on detroit fire. I asked him if they use 2.5 on their fires as an attack line. He told me not often. Though it wouldnt be a bad choice, 1.5 is what they use on most of their fires as well. maybe it is out dated. Maybe. But it has worked out for us.
      I appreciate your concerns. And pointers. I hope you continue practicing our profession with as much passion as you put into criticizing things without having the whole picture.
      As far as commenting on others fires. For years I have been a viewer. I never had an account on youtube to be able to comment, and i never knew about this site until my videos got posted here. So no, I have not ever placed a comment on a video. And If i ever do it will probably be a “good job” “glad everyone is safe” Badass video”…something along those lines. I feel no need to address other FDs problems especially when I really dont know whats going on.
      Stay safe brother. Take care. I am sure you will see more videos from me.

  • Crowbar

    HPZ, it’s refreshing to have someone commenting who was actually on scene. I’m still curious though, why was the rear of the building vented when it appeared to be on the windward side?

  • loud thinker

    @ HPZ

    Monday morning quarterbacking has some good sides, as well as negative.

    It provides us with an opportunity to “well what if this, what would you do.” It provides us with a chance to discuss strategies and tactics.

    The downside is some people would rather just bash you than make a constructive discussion about the video.

    Of course none of us that were there can honestly have anything to say about what should have or could have been done. Without being there you never have that ability. Again, it’s a good way to provoke a good dinner table discussion on tactics and how you could or would operate on an incident. A lot of us, not all, use it as a learning tool and not just as a way of boosting our egos to think we’re better than someone else.

    Glad you have pride and commitment in your department, but actions speak louder than words. Let the tool bags blow their hot air all over the internet.

    Stay efficient, stay effective and stay safe.

    • HPZ

      I agree with you on using videos for the what ifs and what would you do. But its the way people go about it. We are all firemen, we all know the latest and greatest tools to the trade. Some of us get to use them more often. Some of us end up doing things more old school based on resources. Of course I know that a 2.5 is more effective. But its just not what we use here, FOR THE MOST PART. There is no reason to bash us about that. It doesnt make us a BOZO dept. Id say for what we have to work with we are far from BOZO. There are plenty of things my FD does that I wish we did different. i sure that is the same across the board.
      In no way shape or form do I think I am better then anyone. If anyone on here actually knew me they would know that.
      And my biggest bitch is that some of the things people are bitching about with this video, if they could see the whole picture they wouldn’t say what they said because they are wrong about it. So its crazy to me for someone to make a statement like “drove past the fire and parked with no water supply” just because you cant see the hydrant doesnt mean it isnt there. And just because you cant see that we placed an engine inside that parking lot in the rear, doesnt mean we didnt…because we did. there are pictures from photographers to prove it. http://doubledeucefire.smugmug.com/Events/Highland-Park-Michigan/22035172_HxhqrC#!i=1758278427&k=rRR4NtD
      Anyways, i get what you are saying. thanks for the input. Stay safe brother

  • chief 200

    Regardless or how much “work’ one see’s, questionable decisions and practices are always going to be called to task.Twenty years of following policies and routines may be based on familiarity. most of us shuddered when we read the accounts of the (class 1) Charleston fire departments use of booster lines and 2.5″ supply lines laid hundreds of feet. SOMEONE had to know better, but yet it was defended as accepted practice. Pulling a line on a large body of fire that is normally used on a few rooms just makes no sense regardless of does it everyday. History: The 1.5″ was replaced by the 1.75″ after the “war years” slowed down, staffing began to get cut and increased flow was considered a partial solution. Just like so many other things in the profession the 1.75″ began to be THE solution for everything. Yet poor nozzle selection, lack of hydraulic knowledge and actual flow testing often results in far lower flows than the intended 160-180gpm range. Yet is the line of choice everyday when it is clearly not capable of controlling or extinguishing large fires no matter who defends it. The 1.5″ is even less effective. Constantly and forever understaffed we train and are capable of stretching and operating a 2.5″ hand-line with no problem using ONE firefighter! It can be advanced with two. The blame lays on the policy makers, the administration that that should be making better choices. Think about 2″ hose also. I don’t “blame” the rank and file who have been doing the same thing for probably their entire careers. Of course they are going to defend it. No doubt they are excellent firefighers just the same.

    • Mack Seagrave

      Well said chief …

  • DD

    alright statter, you gonna let my comment through or what holmes? Hey HPZ your bitin on the bait, I dont blame you though i would too. When its all said and done, fire went out, no one got hurt,,, good! BUT, seriously whats the deal with the pick head axe and the “maul”? where da flat head and a halligan? I mean it worked, kinda,,but it did work so good job. I’m sure you guys wanted to get in there and kick some ass, kinda hard when the floors are comin down. But if you coulda got in there and found a heavy fire load, its gonna take mucho h20 to overcome them BTU’S, I know you already know this so sorry for da insult. Dont bring a knife to a gun fight. last but not least why do people say thats what we always have done it. My dog always takes a dump inside the house, that dont mean its right! HPZ you sound like a good man, keep up the good work, i mean it. Sorry for the little jabs.

    • HPZ

      No problem brother, the halligan is on the engine and we dont have any flat heads (budget problems). So we used what we had at hand. It happens alot here.

  • Capt 45-2

    Oh and HPZ if you want to see how a 2 ½ is not the monster you have been lead to believe watch this short you tube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKtGvR5mksk&feature=related
    Or youtube search Nozzle Forward Marvin Gaye I think it says it all

  • Capt 45-2

    Hay HPZ how long you been following STAter brother??? These guys are for the most part just pointing out what can kill you. If you are looking for a pat on the back and a great job this is far far from the media to look for it. As far as gloves on and using a pick head ax with a Halligan please, it worked, the crew identified hinges out took the door not bad. Gloves???? Rally???? ok in a perfect world and NFPA and the safety notzies you should have them on but come on.
    I think it is a dead horse but chief 200 is a very wise man, stretching a 2 1/2 on a well involved commercial structure is a no brainer or should be at least. As far as Detroit goes the term “engine?? prepare to dump your monitor” is a dally transmission, they darken down fire with the 2nd due engine wagon pipe while the 1st due is stretching. If you know Detroit you also know they drop their bundle 2 ½ gated wye with their 1.5 lines and lay out to water, that same line can be quickly switched to a 2 ½ blitz line when needed. So in theory most DFD companies stretch a 2 ½ on every fire.

    • HPZ

      Right. But they attack a fire with a 1.5. Look I dont care about getting a pat on the back. I know we do a damn good job. I dont need you guys to tell me our my FD that a 2.5 works better. That is prett damn OBVIOUS. Like i said before.

      • HPZ

        Oh and the dump your monitors…we do it as well. Are you sure it wasnt done on this fire??. I just started following because they put up my videos. Never realized how much un-needed criticism was here lol Its all good though. Stay low brother

  • HPZ

    Im sure this will get some of you guys going.
    The Firefighters I work with are a very humbled group of guys. We have very rough conditions to work in. Our gear is pretty beat up, we do not have more then 2 radios on scene (so SOMETIMES there will be a radio with one of the interior crews), We dont get breaks, or rehab, or relief at our fires. We still use an axe IF we have the chance to ventilate a roof. YES we still use a 1.5 to attack a structure fire. Sometimes the 2 in 2 out rule cannot apply while fighting our fires. Sometime we will send 2 guys to a house fire because the other guys are fighting one already. Sometimes we go from one house to another all night long until our relief comes in at 7am.
    We get our brains beat in, and it humbles us. It makes us realize our limits and capabilities. And how dangerous the job really is. None of us want a pat on the back. And these videos are not posted for that reason. they are simply there for pure entertainment for our fellow firefighting brothers and sisters.

    We do not always follow the book. I am sorry if that angers some of you. It is just a fact. That doesnt mean that we think we are above it, or that we are better then those who do use it. But I think some of you think you are better then us based on the fact that you follow it more then we do. Judging by the way you comment on these videos. Sometimes the book is for those who do not have the experience. SOMETIMES!
    We are fully aware that we do things different. We are fully aware that there are so called better ways to do everything. After each fire we have sit downs and discuss things that went wrong. Or what we could do differently. Or maybe a new SOP. Or sometimes just hey good job guys.

    We ALL do a dangerous job. We ALL deserve a pat on the back. BUT NONE of us are here for that.
    I am sorry if you dont like the way i respond to the negativity of these posts. I never realized how much of it was out there.

    Stay safe everyone. Stay low.
    See you one the next one I post! ;-)

    • RFDVA

      I just read all of these posts and i just want to say that unless you are in a department that responds to more fires daily then over 3/4 of the departments in the country then you have no room to attack. if you have not been to the detroit area and have not seen what these guys have to deal with then please keep your mouth shut unless you have something nice to say. i am not a member of a busy company in terms of fire duty however, i have been to detroit and have seen HPFD in action and i can tell you this, at the few fires i could make it to there were AT LEAST 10-15 people there photographing the operation and almost every company in detroit had a ride-a-long from a department not in the state. when your department can boast that then you may be critical of this department. i realize that this department is not DFD however, they cover an identical demographic and BTW do it with 2 engines and a truck. sorry so long.

      Captain Smartass
      Random VA Fire Department
      Kiss My Ass, Virginia