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NEW VIDEO ADDED: Cameras rolling as firefighters arrive at fatal house fire in Washington, DC.

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I’ve added the video above of the fire at 1801 1st Street in Northwest Washington last night. It’s taken from in front of the burning rowhouse where one man was found dead and shows the initial attack and knockdown of the fire.

The video above and below were shot by  from a vantage point just down the street as firefighters arrived. At the bottom of the post is a report from WUSA-TV reporter Ken Molestina.

WUSA9.com:

Officials have identified the man whose body was discovered at a fire at a two-story rowhouse in Northwest D.C.

The body of 42-year-old Jeffery Nedoroscik was found on the first floor of the  home at 1801 1st St NW.

Police are investigating the incident as a homicide.

Tuesday night, neighbors and witnesses told 9News’ Ken Molestina that the man who lived in the home ran out, then went back inside and was not seen again.

An investigation is ongoing.

Comments - Add Yours

  • mdff

    Dave,

    Check the video feed, there are numerous videos not related to this fatal fire in NW DC

  • Fire21

    The loss of life is tragic. May God be with the man’s family and friends.

    But, what a pleasure to see good interior firefighting!! Puff, the fire goes out. I’m sure it was hot as hell in there, and those firefighters took a beating, but wow, what a great attack! Well done, DC.

  • Anonymous

    Thank you, DC for the refreshing video. It’s nice to see departments still using handlines and suppressing fires from the inside out…

  • Countyfirebuff

    Check out Countyfrebuff on youtube

  • David Mitchell

    Dave – You might want to check these two videos. There seem to be a total of 17 videos that play one after another. Only the first two are from the fire.

    • dave statter

      It’s been fixed. I think.

  • FIRE CHIEF retired

    WOW, Great job by the DCFD, they’re on the scene and zip, zap, zowie, the fire goes out. It sure is refreshing for an old retired chief to see such precise and calculated fire suppression the way we used to do it and apparently the way DCFD still does it. Everyone has a job and everyone goes to work doing their job. I’m Lovin’ it!

    TONS OF KUDDOS on the DCFD!!!!

  • OldCityCaptain

    Great work DCFD!!!!

  • firedude

    They have it all wrong..they should have used that thing on the top of their rig or a 2.5 with the amount of fire they had. That would have been proper tactics, whats wrong with you guys!!!!
    A trained crew with a handlie can put out a lot of fire as seen here. Nice work DCFD.

  • DCFD

    According to commenter we should have attached a 5 inch handline to to the PPV fan and used wind power to drive the fan in and flush the victim to safety out the back door. Much safer for everyone. Oh, and I’m sure someone didn’t have their waist belt buckled, someone wasn’t wearing safety glasses and someone else didn’t have a vest on. Thought I’d get that out there before the Safety Officers showed up here. Good job 6 Engine.

  • driverfiresuv

    Wow, they actually knocked down the fire with an 1 3/4 hand line. What ever are you arm-chair firefighters going to complain about now? Although I have faith in you boys, you will find something.

    • Anonymous

      Actually we use 1.5 still. Even better.

    • DCFD22

      Inch and a half line.

    • Anacostia County

      DCFD uses 1 1/2 attack lines. Much easier to manuver around in rowhouses and tight apartments.

  • Truck Dude

    Let me get this straight….You guys put wet stuff on the red stuff. Where can I get that at?

    • Paul Herrell

      imagin that, what a concept… hmmmm.

  • ontheoutside

    Good thing the “communication director” was there to handle the media.

  • HOOKMAN

    This fire was put out in a rather quick manner because the engine crew took time to read the smoke….ha…though there was a loss of life…it was a job well done…

  • Father Bill

    While we all pat each other on the back here (IAFF Meeting) a person still perished in this fire. That should be the main focus of comments, no matter what, nothing good can be said of this situation.
    Although this individual probably perished before FD arrived, it can be said it is at the very least, insenitive on a public forum to be trying to pass high 5′s around.

    • Fire21

      Father Bill, I understand your comments, and I agree, a person died here…tragedy.

      However, despite what occurred, the overall performance of the firefighters at this scene appears to have been exemplary. Whether a victim lives or dies, the firefighters still have to finish the job at hand. Giving them credit for what they achieved in a most admirable fashion isn’t ill-advised. It can bolster them for the next time they have to face such conditions.

      Again, I ask God’s blessings on that man’s soul, and peace for his family and friends.

    • driverfiresuv

      Well father, since you called the IAFF meeting to order I would like to make a motion you pull your head out from your arse.

      Why bring the IAFF into this, no reason. One could make the argument that not supporting our brothers and sisters is also insensitive, as I find your post to be. Great job DCFD, keep up the good work.

  • smokediver77

    Just another day at the office, Good Job 6 Engine!

  • Anonymous

    Looks like the DCFD needs to have some ground ladder drills.

  • Curly from CT

    OK Fire Nerds….Let’s figure out the BTU’s produced at the interior compartment fire. Length X Width X Height….for a 30 second application….BITE ME…stretch a line…put it out!Nice goin’ DC

    • MAINAH FIAHFIGHTAH

      Couldn’t agree more curly!!!!! Job well done boys!

  • the ear

    DCFD did a great job on this fire.Still alot of pride in spite of the BS going on in the department.

  • Sal

    Wow! 1 room of fire and you all wanna stroke each other. get off your high horses. This is nothing to talk about….and that truck work was pathetic to say the least.

  • Commenter

    A fatal fire is hardly something to brag about.

    0:22 FD on location
    1:00 White hat guy IFO building
    1:47 Water from front porch through front door
    2:08 Fire darkened down
    7:00 still very smoky

    I suggest:

    0:02 FD on scene – save 20 seconds by leaving water supply to 2nd or 3rd due engine
    0:02 water through window from street via pump & roll bumper turret
    0:12 fire darkened down because turret gun flows more than 95 gpm
    1:00 360 completed (or report from rear) fan started
    1:30 smoke clearing, Positive Pressure Attack entry made
    2:00 hot spots out, starting to overhaul.
    4:00 building clear of smoke

    Even if you don’t have bumper nozzles, you should be able to deploy a crosslay and flow water within :15 of parking brake, which means water on the fire at 0:17 instead of a minute and a half later.

    I don’t know what killed Jeffery Nederoscik. He was probably dead before the FD arrived. Smoke & fire gases are usually the killer of fire victims. There are two things that the FD does to combat these: #1 get water on the fire and #2 replace smoke & gases with fresh air.

    DCFEMS could do better:
    1) It’s fire engines are unavailable far too often running medical calls.
    2) DCFEMS culture prevents hitting the fire from the street or the curb. In this video the FFs get right up to the front door before flowing water. The fire doesn’t care where the water came from — water through the front door is the same whether or not it came from the porch, the sidewalk, or the street.
    3) DCFEMS culture prevents using Positive Pressure Ventilation fans prior to putting the fire all the way out. Research shows that using PPA lowers the temperature and poison gas levels in the entire house outside the fire room. Being in the fire room is invariably fatal, PPV or not.
    4) I don’t know if they do or not, DC needs to treat fire victims with amyl nitrate

    • Gil

      I am guessing you don’t know the SOP’s for DC. So you don’t want the first due to lay in? And a why do a 360 when the 2nd due engine is going to the rear with a size up? And how are you going to use a turret gun when we leave the front for the truck?

    • firedude

      Please can we some videos of you & your dept in action describing your tactics. I have now lost faith that this is being taught in the fire service today.

    • tired

      You are so right!!! Thanks for enlightening everyone on here!!!! We promise the next time we go to a “Those U.L. tests don’t lie! Scientifically tested, under controlled conditions” fire we will employ your “save my hide before the citizens” tactics.

      Promise!

      Until then if you think you are so right and want to take shots at everyone on STATTER identify yourself and put a video of your department up so we can all have a laugh at your long carrier with no injuries. Otherwise shut the F$#@ up!

      I know I did not ID myself. I am Not taking shots at these guys.

      • commenter

        Saving *our* hide is a good side effect, but my method brings a better atmosphere to the victims much much faster, kills the gas and heat generating fire much much much faster, and allows for a much faster and more effective search and rescue for victims.

        I don’t identify myself because my arguments don’t depend on ME — that’d be a logical ad hominem argument. Argue the case, not the man. NOTHING I put here is disproven by either real experience or by practical demonstration. Change scares you. I get it. I don’t care. Fire Departments exist to save lives and property, not provide you with a stage upon which you can prove your bravery.

    • Tim

      We could all learn something from Commenter……when to keep your mouth shut. Classic DC fire, Classic DCFD result. Quick interior attack. For those of you who think you know what you are doing, this IS the way to do it. Victim most certainly perished prior to Fire Department arrival. Had he been on the second floor, the quick attack would have been his only chance. A deck gun won’t reach past the parlor on a unit block rowhouse, and your PPV would have blown the fire onto the rear porches and extended to the exposures. Given all the crappy firegrounds I have seen in this site it’s refreshing to see it done the RIGHT way. Good Job New Jersey Ave! Bronco, Mike, Danny, should bring back some memories.

      • commenter

        Interior attack? Nozzleman was on the porch when he opened up. I’m saying to hit it almost 2 minutes earlier from 15′ further away. Give it 30 seconds while the nozzleman pulls a hose and the officer sizes up. Shut off the bumper turret, start the fan, let the track stabilize, and move in for the kill.

        SWAT teams throw flashbangs first. Marines use naval bombardment. The FD should almost always use a transitional attack, or at least, a KTF-to-interior attack.

        Had he been upstairs, my method would have reduced CO, CN, Heat and smoke sooner, would have had water on the fire *MINUTES* sooner, and would have freed up more of the truck company to be assigned SAR rather than leaving SAR for a later arriving rescue squad.

    • DCFD

      Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

      You either work for NFPA or at the NIOSH testing facility

  • Shhh…

    First off let me express my sorrow for the loss of the fire victim and family.

    Father Bill you are correct nothing good can be said of this situation. DCFD and E-6, GREAT job!! If this is how you handle your IAFF meetings then keep it up.

  • Sharppointy1

    Wow, water on the fire in 2 minutes. I’m impressed. Too bad it couldn’t help the victim. I saw something that said this is now a homicide investigation, do you have any news on that, Dave?

  • Anonymous

    Excellent Risk Assesmwnt. Did not break windows to allow the fire flow path to spread to the second floor, good transitional attack by darking it down from the stoop and then moving in. Sorry for the deceased, but the DCFD did the best they could do.

  • PumpermanJim

    Commenter, I would like to know what Fire Dept. you belong to , please give us the name of this Dept., you seem to trash the DCFD whenever you get the chance along with other Fire Dept. throughout the U.S ,have you ever put out a fire, this fire though tragic was a very aggresive attack by E-6 , the crap that you come up with I have to wonder are you for real.As a retired member of DCFD we have always fought fire this way and I am proud to see the tradition goes on. Great job to the firefighter’s on the line

    • commenter

      Oh, it’s agressive to flow water from the front porch at 1:47, but it’s cowardly to flow water at 0:02 seconds from 15′ further out on the street?

  • LFD Capt

    “Even if you don’t have bumper nozzles, you should be able to deploy a crosslay and flow water within :15 of parking brake, which means water on the fire at 0:17 instead of a minute and a half later”

    I throw a century in the pot to see the “Commenter” deploy hose and get water on a fire in his time frame, anybody else want to add to the pot….

    I call BS on it…

  • has a clue

    Commenter… please
    0:02 Pay attention. Water supply is already handled by 3rd & 4th due engines.
    0:02 Are you insane? Where does the ladder truck park? This isn’t a brush fire.
    0:12 Again, you are insane.
    1:00 360 was completed a minute ago. You must have missed that part.
    DC treat SMOKE INHALATION victims with hydroxocobalamin.

    • commenter

      1st & 2nd due have to stop, let hydrant man out, let hydrant man pull the layout section, let hydrant man unhook and remove humat valve, let hydrant man signal driver to proceeed. 10-20 seconds.

  • HOOKMAN

    @Commenter…..from your book smart street dumb comment, you’ve shown that you’re not only a complete zero and have the same amount of experience doing what E6 was doing…zero….YOU +PPV+Bumper turret(lol)+Squirting Water from the street = Non Firefighting Yard Guarding Dummy…..my goodness…a TruGreen lawn technician would be closer to the house with water than what you just described…

    • DCFD

      Classic

  • Anonymous

    How can anybody seriously think that a better and quicker job could’ve been done on this fire by anyone. Not trying to stroke those there or the DCFD but damn! That was crazy awesome! How do I get my volley house on board with this kind of firefighting?!?!?!

  • Roger104

    If using quints there is no need to leave room for aerial. If using deck gun no need to stretch hose line. 2 minutes to get water versus 15 seconds. I would rather 15 seconds.

    • Brian McAllister

      Well we dont use Quints we use Engines and Trucks to define their work.
      You can talk like your department is better and we suck and don’t know what we are doing all you want. The video does not lie. 6 Engine rocked that fire like DCFD does on most (not all). Our tacticts work for us….yours work for you….keep it that way and just except a great crew did a great job and the outcome was what they were striving for.

      • commenter

        Your tactics didn’t work for the victim here. Maybe none would. But if E-6 had showed up with a quint that had a pump & roll bumper turret, and had trained it’s use and was prepared to make a rapid transitional positive pressure attack, water would have gone onto that fire almost 2 minutes earlier, the fire would have darkened down 2 minutes earlier, a search team would have entered 2-4 minutes sooner, and smoke would have cleared 5 minutes sooner.

        DC E-6 did a good job of showing up and following DC’s tactics. The firefighters were clearly good at performing the tasks expected of them. They showed up, pulled a line quickly, and actually did a half decent job of a ‘transistional’ attack – hitting the fire from the stoop and then moving in. However, we have slide poles and sirens because seconds count. They were on the scene for more than 1.5 minutes before flowing water onto the fire. I’ve shown how water could have been flowed onto the fire more than a 100 seconds earlier. Yes, my method flows water from outside — but so does DC’s: the video is proof.

        Engine and Truck work is an artificial division. It’s all firefighting. Ventilation needs to be coordinated and controlled at the unit level. The hose team needs to be able to perform forcible entry – it shouldn’t have to wait for a truck to cut bars and gates. Every firefighter should be able to throw a ladder and remove a victim.

        • DCFD

          This was not a “transitional” attack like you claim. Everything about this attack was an aggressive interior attack mentality. When fire is pushing out of the front door you have to darken it down and move in and keep attacking the fire with water until you reach the seat of the fire. You cannot just walked into flames, stand inside a fully involved room than start your attack. While the DCFD is not perfect and their tactics may not always work for counties or rural areas, it works for the type of structures in the district. The culture in DC has always been a, go in and get to the seat of the fire mentality. The majority of companies train on a daily basis on learning their districts, metro familiarization, pulling lines, forcible entry, and any other way to better their companies. We have SOGs in place to prevent freelancing and prevent a delay on the fireground to be assigned specific tasks by the OIC, such, as ventilation, rescue, forcible entry. All engine companies do carry forcible entry tools and are fully capable of forcing entry if the need arises. A wagon driver can throw the 24′ ladder on the wagon if the need for it arises. We don’t need LDH or Wagon Pipes for a room, or a floor involved. Our companies are efficient in the way they operate an 1 1/2 handline and will continue that tradition for centuries to come. So yes Engine and Truck work are separate divisions on the fire ground in DC, and they are both pretty damn good at firefighting. Keep in mind that this fire was contained to the fire building and fire floor, even with fire licking against the second floor window and the exposure. You should take a step back once in a while and appreciate a job well done without the use of your “buzz” words, or the preaching of an article that you read in fire engineering magazine. Keep your department’s tactics to yourself once in a while, and stop trying to make what works for you (which is up for debate) the standard in the fire service.

          • commenter

            My question for you: if this was an awesome job, getting water on the fire from the front porch at 1:47 video time, why would getting water on the fire from the street at 0:02 video time be a bad thing?

        • Shhh…

          “But if E-6 had showed up with a quint that had a pump & roll bumper turret, and had trained it’s use and was prepared to make a rapid transitional positive pressure attack, water would have gone onto that fire almost 2 minutes earlier, the fire would have darkened down 2 minutes earlier, a search team would have entered 2-4 minutes sooner, and smoke would have cleared 5 minutes sooner.”

          IF a frog had wings he wouldnt bump his ass.

    • DCFD

      Interior firefighting isn’t for everyone. As Hookman stated, you should look into a career at TruGreen, they shoot water from the street.

      • commenter

        At 1:47 the nozzleman flows water from the front porch, outside the structure. This is a ‘transitional’ attack whether you call it that or not.

  • Doing it.

    I can tell via the IP addresses that 40 of these 41 comments are coming from Catonsville.

  • PumpermanJim

    Commenter , still haven’t answered my question what Fire Dept.do you belong to?, If you can’t answer that question you must be a poser.

  • Pipeman27

    Don’t entertain that idiot anymore

  • Dirk Diggler

    I work for this Fire Department & are- one of the best firemen I have ever met, me was on this fire ground, I would like to take credit for putting the fire out, but I can’t. I was hanging back in the shadows thinking to myself… SELF, this is how we do it… In my slightly less than 20 years on the JOB… I have been able to observe, many other fire departments operate. I would not change much, if anything in our standard SOG’S, for a row house structure fire. DC has been doing this long before me and probably long after me. Our SOG’S, are in my biased opinion, pretty friking good. Are we perfect, far from it, actually, we are fairly lousy, at switching gears from interior to exterior, we don’t do it much, and it is not in our mind-set. You talk about hitting it from the street, well what happens if the block is jacked up with cars and we cannot get to the front for a hit, what happens when it is in the rear, and the wagon can’t make the alley, or it is a basement fire… your statements are retarded for our scope of firefighting… I am not going to bash other Fire Departments, BUT you can look at Statter every day and see many other fire departments, with less on arrival, end up with a building on the ground. This could be many reasons, construction, distance, man power, experience etc… A lot of it, lack of experience. As far as saving lives, smoke inhalation gets most people, the secondary effects of a flash over, or free burring fire usually finish it up. I’m not a doctor, but even with your Turret theory, would have not changed the outcome here! And for all you PPV, then go in, check the CO level rocket science, please… Go back to the Burbs… Some of the text book, smartest guys I have ever meet, in DC, or anywhere else, are some of the lousiest firefighters I have ever met… It’s firefighting, nothing more, nothing less… Do your JOB, on the fire ground Stretch hose, flow water, ventilate, vertical and laterally, search for victims… It will all work out.

    • commenter

      How do you justify making this victim wait almost 2 minutes longer for water as ‘pretty friking good’?
      How do you justify making this victim wait 5 or more minutes longer for fresh air as ‘pretty friking good’?
      Your statements are very much retarded.

      I look at DC’s videos, and have driven around the city, and am familiar with the fires fought in DC and elsewhere. A bumper (or roof) turret would get the quick knock on at least half the fires, and certainly on this one. For almost all of the rest, a charged line reel, bundled preconnects, or really good hose handling could get a stream on a fire within 1:00 of arrival.

      No one here, in 50+ comments, has accused E-6′s pipeman of pushing the fire onto the deceased victim. If you believe that was the case #1 you’re wrong and #2 you should be fighting for better tactics. Bottom line is that the best method for putting the fire out is to overwhelm it, as quickly as possible, from a safe location – which is almost exactly what E-6 did. Once you accept that, you realize that you could save 1:30 of time by not having to stop the engine, get out of the cab, pull the crosslay, flake it out, charge it, advance it to the door, etc. You’d just flip the PTO switch at the beginning of the block, start aiming the joystick, and when you got 60′ away, pull the trigger.

      That was 1:30 at this fire, when the fire met you at the open front door. There was no forcible entry problem, you didn’t have to advance the line upstairs, or any of the other tactical considerations that add minutes to an interior advance. If you had to cut a locked gate at the front door, and then advance over Collier’s Mansion conditions on the first floor and stair to a fire in the second floor front bedroom, you’d have been even further behind a roll-on blitz. Even if you didn’t have turrets or good vehicle access, you’d be behind a good handline KTF-to interior operation.

      I never said that E-6 or DC did a bad job at this fire, they’re clearly skilled firefighters. However, their tactics are antiquated and cost valuable time to get water on the fire. Look at that fire in Louisiana. They had water on the fire faster than DC, and they showed up with 2 guys not 40.

      • Titanic

        Commenter…. There are a many problems with your reasoning.

        1] Your timeline is incorrect.
        “0:22 FD on location
        1:00 White hat guy IFO building
        1:47 Water from front porch through front door”

        The first unit to arrive was not an engine company, It was a truck. The first white helmet was the truck officer. You claim that it takes 1:47 to flow water. That is from the start of the video, not from the arrival of the first unit, which is “0:22 FD on location”. so that puts us down to 1:25. Shown in the second video, the truck is first on scene at ~24 sec and the engine at ~39. That’s a 15 second difference. Now we’re at 1:10, not 1:47. That’s with an Engine, on scene, with an established water supply (ie not waiting for another company to lay supply line)

        2] Your timeline for how long it should take is completely speculative. It’s easy to say it would only take seconds to execute your plan, but I guarantee you cannot accomplish these tasks in this time frame. The only way you can prove me wrong is to post a video of you performing these tasks in the given time. I’m sure Dave Statter would gladly post them. If you can pull it off I will gladly retract my statements.

        3] How do you use a bumper turret when you can’t get to the front of the building? As you can see, this is a narrow street and the truck stopped short of the fire building to put the aerial up to an exposure (to avoid putting the stick through the flames). So, what would you do? Do you lap the block & come from the North? That would take at least a minute there.

        4] You cannot perform a 360* size-up on a middle of the row rowhouse in 1 minute.

        5] So you start a fan at 1 minute, before you are able to effectively ventilate the structure. If you want to know what that will do, watch this old video to see what happens if you use a fan in a structure that has not been properly vented.

        Keep in mind, this was a training exercise where everyone was on scene with lines already in place. Now try to apply that to a fire ground where you usually have less than ideal conditions and units arriving at varying times.

        6] Quints….these will only work if you are able to staff them with enough bodies to perform all of the tasks required of both an engine and a truck. DCFD can’t even get a contract, so you can forget about additional staffing to ride each quint. DC has tried them in the past. If you want to know how well that worked, notice there are no quints anywhere in this video.

        If these tactics work for you, great. use what’s effective for you. DC has been perfecting this since 1871, that’s over 141 years of developing SOG’s that are extremely effective in handling fire within the neighborhoods of DC. They may not work anywhere else in the world, or even in certain other parts of the DC, but they obviously work very well on row homes. So move on.

        Can’t wait to see the videos showing your tactics in actions.

        • commenter

          Finally, an intelligent response.

          1) My timeline starts :20 before the engine gets there because DC’s SOPs require it to stop and lay a line. The truck / engine argument solidifies my argument for quints. Water is the name of the game. It can be done faster if you don’t lay out. 500 gallons is enough to knock a room, or certainly make things better for everyone else. A 3″ line from a hydrant isn’t going to give you much flow if it gets big – maybe 3-400 gpm. A 3″ line pumped by another engine certainly isn’t going to give enough water to fully engage the 12 guys on the two engines involved and the truck infront of the house, maybe 900-1000 gallons?. Might as well go with tank water off the bat and let that second engine forward lay you 5″.

          2) it’s easy to say that a pump and roll engine can roll up on a fire and spray water on it before it stops because that’s what they do. It’s easy to say that a room will darken down in 10 seconds because I’ve seen it. It only took :21 to do it with a 125 gpm handline. Doubling the flow would actually cut that closer to 1/4 the time rather than 1/2 the time, but it’s trivial to have a 250 or 500 gpm bumper turret. The actual darkening time isn’t very important to the timeline anyway. The next critical step prior to entry is size up and ventilation.

          3) With quints, the 1st piece gets the front of the building. With PPA, the aerial isn’t quite as important. With 2 story row houses, the aerial isn’t quite as important. With row houses, getting the aerial to the front isn’t quite as important – you can walk down the row. If there’s a cop or a delivery truck in front, you pull a hand line. But I’d guess that well over half the time, you can get prime real estate in front (or side, or rear) of the building and use the turret. So, half the time, you’re going to shave 1.5 to 5 minutes off the time it takes to get water on the fire.

          4) DC doesn’t even try to do a 360 size up. Just a windshield report and run in. If it’s a long row, the company in the rear can report on the rear. In the case of 1810 1st St NW it’s 375′ from the front to the rear. A walk to the rear would take 1:15. A run would take 0:42. I’m guessing that the company in the rear would make the report here – but it has to be done before committing men into the building. Or you get what you got on 4th st or 48th pl

          5) I don’t know what they were planning there. Couple of cardinal rules of PPA they break: 1) only before entry or after exit. 2) have a charged line ready to enter 3) there must be an exit vent larger than the entry vent, and there can’t be any one in the way 4) turn the fan in on low throttle, you observe conditions at entry and exit and let them stabilize. Finally, you enter.

          6) Quints work fine with a good SOP and good training. DC certainly has enough personnel to put 5 men on a quint or two at each station. I’ll not do the math here. First quint to each side – Kill the Flashover. Second quint to each side: bring water supply and assist the first. Or, with your tactics: 1st quint to each side: Engine. 2nd quint to each side: Truck. 3rd quint to each side: Engine. DC has never tried quints. Don’t make a liar out of yourself. At one point they owned a telesquirt. They never ‘tried’ it. There are no quints in DC because the IAFF has convinced everyone that they’re a budget cutting tool . DC would be better served with 42+ 5 man quints rather than 49 4 & 5 man engines and trucks, I’m sure. However, it’s not central to my argument.

          You guys keep saying you’ve been perfecting these tactics over decades of time. You havent. When were these tactics last reviewed? When you lost the pumpers? Nope. You just figured out how to keep on doing what you’d been doing without pumpers.

          What do you mean work well? How fast the fire goes out? I’m sure that’s of small comfort to the family of the deceased. And, despite video evidence, rolling up and hitting it from outside is unquestionably faster yet. How many lives you save? Nope. Dead man on the first floor at this fire. Fairfax, with a larger population and almost as many poor people, had a zero fire death year last year. Not DC. Not even close. How much property you save? Couldn’t tell, don’t have access to those numbers. But I’ll tell you that I’ve seen some spectacularly large fires in DC. And again, faster is better, and while you guys might be faster than the county boys, you’re not faster than a sprinkler or a bumper turret.

          The most telling part of how bad your tactics are is on the wall at headquarters. You’ve burned and maimed more firemen than I care to count. You fail to size up the building before entry. You fail to control ventilation before entry. You fail to kill the flashover before entry. You fail to bring enough water to do the worst-case job. You fail to maintain accountability of each entrant. So, humble yourself, take a hard look in the mirror, and realize that your tactics aren’t what you’ve cracked them up to be.

  • Dave LeBlanc

    It is tragic that a person died, especially in light of the effort put forth by the DCFD. Strong work brothers.

    I would suggest to those here that are unable to add their names to their posts that criticize the actions of the DCFD should take a moment to realize that ‘their” tactics and ‘their’ ideas might not work in an environment where the skill of the brothers have been honed over years of hard work.

    And even if their ideas ‘might’ work, it doesn’t mean they would have worked better…….

    So ‘Commenter” and “anonymous’, take you ground ladder drill and quint and go play in your own yard, this is the adult table……

  • commenter

    Sorry Dave LeBlanc. Can’t post my name, you see how these guys take criticism. Some of these guys might actually know me.

    I freely admit that the skill shown by the men of E-6 surpasses my own. I’m too old to move that fast. They are good at what they’ve trained to do. I make the argument that they are trained to do the wrong things –

    –this fire, where everyone but me agrees that E-6 did the right thing, went out after E-6 sprayed water from a nominally 125 gpm handline from the front stoop. It is impossible to argue that it did not take them 1:46 from arrival to get the line in service – it’s on video. I could show you dozens of videos of ARFF trucks using pump and roll bumper turrets prior to the wheels stopping.
    –so, what I’m left with, is guys like you, and others, somehow arguing that 125 gpm through the front door from the steps is somehow better than 250-500 gpm through the front door from the street almost 2 minutes earlier.
    –if this is truly the adult table, let us put aside pride, and baseless traditions, and look critically at what we do. There is no rational explanation for thinking that less water, later, applied from the same direction and through the same opening, is going to be more effective than more water, earlier.

    • Gil

      Ok the next box that comes out they should put the crash truck first due. Then they can use the bumper turret and pump and roll.

    • ARFF

      Anyone with any knowledge of ARFF will tell you the most effective means of fighting an aircraft fire is with hand lines not the turrets.

      So while your engine is sitting there spraying water with its turret what do you suggest everyone else does? I guess the truck is just going to throw the air brake and wait to be able to setup and vent the building.

  • Shhh…

    Well if youre to old to do it then youre too old to train them the correct way (in your opinion)why dont you buy DC govt. new equipment with bumper mounted turrets and sign your retirement checks over to the trainig staff of DCFD.
    BTW, what happened? Did you loose the job selling PPV fans and now you sell turrets? (SOF)

  • Mikey

    Commenter you still have yet to let us know where you are from so we can research these mythical tactics on our own. So I did a little research myself. So far as I can tell there are zero videos or even accounts of using the attack plan you have explained here in the ridiculous timeframe you have provided. So since we are just making up attack plans simply for the fact of bashing DCFD, I’m gonna take my shot at it too.

    Commenter your attack plan is outdated and too slow. I have a classroom tested method that can shave the water on fire time in half.

    0:00 use lasers from space to cut a hole in the roof (since lasers travel at the speed of sound this is done instantly)

    0:01 The USAF will drop a laser guided precision water bomb through said hole in the roof getting water on the fire in exactly half the time your archaic method does. I’m sure you do fine with your made up method, I just wish you would simply accept the fact that my space laser/water nuke transformational attack is superior to yours.

    You are argument/time line are ridiculous. You sound like a medic.

  • commenter

    Good one Mikey. Bumper turrets would at $25k to each engine, as they are replaced over 5 years. $300k/y. How much would it cost to have a bomber loiter over DC 24/7/365? Is there such a thing as a water bomb?

    There are no videos of this attack method AFAIK. There are some departments that have considered or have specc’d bumper nozzles for blitz attacks, but none that I’ve been associated with. Bllitz attacks are a real and accepted tactic in the rest of the fire world. Detroit does them regularly. Transistional attacks — WHAT DC DID HERE — are real and accepted tactics elsewhere too.

    The concept of synthesizing new tactics based on what works in separate situations may be beyond your capabilities. Let me show you the chain:

    – DC E-6 ‘successfully’ executes a transitional attack at 1810 1st St NW, knocking the fire down with a 125 gpm nozzle through the door from the front porch before moving in for final extinguishment.
    –it took 1:46 to place the crosslay in service from the front porch.
    –Pump and roll bumper turrets have been in use in ARFF and SWI / Wildland firefighting for many decades.
    –pump and roll bumper turret could be used to put more effective (than 125 gpm) stream through windows and front door much earlier than 1:47

    Nothing else has to change. Well, actually, a lot has to change, but imagine what difference there’d be if if instead of stopping 50′ back, the engine rolled on in front, bumper turret working, and darkened the fire while the firefighters pulled the crosslay. Shut down the turret and go to work.

    • Brian McAllister

      Commentor,
      Until you can show a video of your theory, you have zero credit making a point it is better than what you have seen in the video attached to this story. Put your money where your mouth is, step up to the plate and prove what you speak. Otherwise you are just noise in the background of a post where firefighters gather to speak about their jobs. Enjoy your day and catch up on your fire buff reading if you have time between making unproven theory posts.

  • has a clue

    commenter should put his name in the hat for fire administrator. He could get us a brand new fleet of 33 quints and save the city so much money he would be the next golden child! It would have to be a whole fleet, right? Because you would never want to accidentally have a regular pumper show up and throw a monkeywrench into the pump and roll plan. Or do you want us to have different SOGs for each box alarm depending on who is first due until we get all 33 replaced? Also, old E12′s “the thing” was a 1994 KME Renegade / Grumman FireStix in case anyone cares.

  • Dave LeBlanc

    John Commentor, or is it Commentor Doe – the fire went out when the made the turn in the front room, not from the stoop. Sure the front hallway darkened down, but fire goes out when you put water at the seat of the fire.

    And what happens when landscape, fences, cars or small children block your bumper turrets?

    And so what if someone may ‘know you’

    • Commenter

      I’m not saying the guys woudn’t need to go in and get it, but when there aren’t landscape or other obstacles, hitting it from the street is faster, which means that the fire is darkened earlier, which means it stops spreading, stops generating CO and CN and the rest of the deadly stuff, which means that anyone trapped elsewhere in the building has a better chance of living.

      As far as I know, no one does all the stuff I suggest here. Each of the individual tactics is proven. Fog stream through a window or door, as shown in the field here by the DCFD, is tested by the UL. “It appears that in most cases the fire was slowed down by the water application and that the external water application had no negative impacts to occupant survivability”

      Dave L. – There is nothing so difficult or so dangerous as to undertake to change the order of things. – Machiavelli.

  • Old head

    I just like how posting a DCFD video will generate a jillion comments hahaha!

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  • Jeremy

    I don’t know if anyone will see this, because it’s two months old, but I’ll write this anyway.

    I moved out of that downstairs unit in January 2011. It’s a shame to see it burned, and I was shocked to hear Jeffrey died due to the fire. He lived a troubled life, and it’s too bad he ended in such a troubled way as well.

    I was very impressed with how the fire fighting unit put out the blaze in a matter of seconds after starting. I say it was well done.